tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post8028727262607543300..comments2023-12-26T10:22:04.630-05:00Comments on Things of My Soul: Modern Prophets & Ancient Prophets - One StandardPapa Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06704974609266088416noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-13935011797080172182011-04-07T18:48:20.388-04:002011-04-07T18:48:20.388-04:00"For what it's worth, I recently heard fr..."For what it's worth, I recently heard from a source in Salt Lake (NOTE: this is second-hand information) that in some parts of seminary, students now are being taught what Emma Smith taught later in her life, that polygamy began with Brigham Young." <br /><br />Not worth the electronic paper it's written on. The Seminary manual is EXPLICIT that Jospeh instituted polygamy. ItPapa Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704974609266088416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-29294020946259437622011-04-07T18:37:23.412-04:002011-04-07T18:37:23.412-04:00Fine, one more time:
"You are always so imp...Fine, one more time: <br /><br />"You are always so impatient with me. What about other non-Mormons?" <br /><br />Quite patient, generally. Seriously. <br /><br />We have PLENTY of biographical information about LDS prophets, including LOTS of weaknesses and examples of Joseph practicing polygamy - but they aren't in our standard works (with the exception of the D&C, which Papa Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704974609266088416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-29263030642374788782011-04-07T00:42:17.514-04:002011-04-07T00:42:17.514-04:00Papa D.
You are always so impatient with me. What...Papa D.<br /><br />You are always so impatient with me. What about other non-Mormons?<br /><br />If my questions were repetitive in your opinion, allow me to explain the logic a little more clearly:<br /><br />You were drawing the comparison to the way that people measure ancient and modern prophets in light of what they did. <i>How do we know what ancient prophets did?</i> <b>We can look into Joshuanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-2975428062969687472011-04-05T23:48:42.496-04:002011-04-05T23:48:42.496-04:00Joshua, you are derailing the point of this post, ...Joshua, you are derailing the point of this post, again - but I will respond this one more time: <br /><br />1) I've already said that our modern scriptures are NOT biographical. If you aren't even going to acknowledge my answers to your questions but just repeat those questions even after I answer them, why in the world would I continue to type the exact same answers repeatedly. I won&Papa Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704974609266088416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-72155955561505674562011-04-05T23:20:35.336-04:002011-04-05T23:20:35.336-04:00In saying that the accounts are "air brushed&...In saying that the accounts are "air brushed" or "carefully constructed", you seem to be implying that they are less than accurate. And if you could, can you give us a source of extra-biblical information that would show that the accounts less than accurate and give evidence for your assertion?<br /><br />Also, would you admit the same thing about The Book of Mormon, The Joshuanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-67410649618371363932011-04-05T22:02:29.342-04:002011-04-05T22:02:29.342-04:00Hmmm. Thanks for putting it bluntly. I wouldn'...Hmmm. Thanks for putting it bluntly. I wouldn't want you to put it any other way.<br /><br />So where exactly could a person find Joseph Smith's polygamy (his personal practice of it; the names of his wives) in 1 of the 4 standard works? (I'll pick this one out because a family member of mine, still a Mormon today, was shocked when she learned that Joseph Smith practiced it; she says Joshuanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-38226545676221318272011-04-05T14:58:34.299-04:002011-04-05T14:58:34.299-04:00Joshua, I'm going to say this pretty bluntly, ...Joshua, I'm going to say this pretty bluntly, because I can't think of another way to say it: <br /><br />We have EVERY ONE of those things about Joseph Smith in print and in our official historical records - every one of them. Not one of those things is "secret". For example, the Seminary lesson this morning about polygamy was explicit that Joseph practiced polygamy - and Papa Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704974609266088416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-24325633415969050052011-04-05T12:56:36.146-04:002011-04-05T12:56:36.146-04:00Hey, PapaD.
I thought it was interesting that you...Hey, PapaD.<br /><br />I thought it was interesting that you would say that the accounts we have are "very limited, subjective, carefully-constructed, airbrushed snapshot of those former prophets." Then at the beginning of the post, you mentioned that "some of the actions of those prophets still allowed them to be considered prophets." I say interesting because if they were &Joshuanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-54670717804291767782011-03-29T17:36:41.899-04:002011-03-29T17:36:41.899-04:00Doug, I never said Paul was opposed to women - and...Doug, I never said Paul was opposed to women - and, fwiw, your interpretation of those passages is one of MANY possibly correct interpretations. If it was as simple as your comment implies, there wouldn't be as much disagreement among Mormon and non-Mormon Bible scholars. It's not that I'm right or you're right; it's that there really isn't any way to be absolutely Papa Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704974609266088416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-46121821508504824462011-03-29T04:33:00.709-04:002011-03-29T04:33:00.709-04:00Matthew & Papa D.
Thanks for the qualificatio...Matthew & Papa D.<br /><br />Thanks for the qualifications.<br /><br />I would pose, however, that I feel you have misunderstood Paul. Which isn't surprising as he is as clear as mud at times. He, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young all suffered from being early preachers of the faith. Thus they just blurted away without consideration of how their words could be misunderstood.<br /><br />Paul Doug Towershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17119162546723347214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-13717434659717325862011-03-28T22:19:16.336-04:002011-03-28T22:19:16.336-04:00Doug, thank you for your thoughtful comment. I re...Doug, thank you for your thoughtful comment. I really do appreciate it. Just a few things: <br /><br />1) Matthew is correct about the teachings of Paul that were the product of his time and culture. However, I chose him intentionally to make my point - that even the most learned, theologically educated apostle of all time was not immune to such biases and influences. <br /><br />2) You are Papa Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704974609266088416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-92100359704399472962011-03-28T20:06:37.630-04:002011-03-28T20:06:37.630-04:00Doug, I think what PapaD was getting at with Paul ...Doug, I think what PapaD was getting at with Paul was more along the lines of his rules of dress / hairstyle and perhaps his attitudes towards women. (Not trying to put words in your mouth, Ray, of course :D)<br /><br />Paul was a product of his times and was subject to all the cultural blind spots that were common to his era, as are we all.Matthewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3199387660357003170.post-86769850739622517652011-03-28T19:34:37.469-04:002011-03-28T19:34:37.469-04:00Papa
Just a technicality for interest sake. Samso...Papa<br /><br />Just a technicality for interest sake. Samson was classified as a judge in Dan. He can't have been "the prophet" in the sense we talk of, as he didn't even hold any priesthood.<br /><br />I'm a little confused on your comment on Paul. Paul was far better informed of the gospel of Christ and its application than the backward version we have these days. Ours Doug Towershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17119162546723347214noreply@blogger.com